CNN: “michigan senate candidate abdul el-sayed brought out the heavy hitters this weekend. president barack obama joined him at a campaign event in detroit, and quickly went after president trump.” Barack Obama: “what’s up with the gold? i mean, he’s got the white house looking like saddam hussein opened a cheesecake factory. it’s just gold everywhere.” CNN: “trump responded in kind, telling reporters that obama is not a smart guy, adding that only a stupid person would run the country as he did. he responded again at a rally in mississippi tonight.” Donald Trump: “barack hussein obama, have you heard of him? donald trump spends a lot of his time fixing up the white house. isn’t that a nice thing to do? he said, this isn’t a cheesecake factory, can you believe it? which is a very successful company. this isn’t. he doesn’t like successful companies. but you know, he was very critical about me, because i spend time. it’s not money, it’s peanuts. but the white house is now in better shape than it was in 1792.” Host: “van, let’s get this on. hey, listen. it’s another election, and it’s these two who are making the argument. your thoughts?” Van Jones: “hey, listen, barack obama is still the most talented communicator. and when you get him loose, like he was this weekend, there’s nobody better. and he lit him up. by the way, bill clinton also lit him up. he said he made the white house look like liberace’s bathroom. so you’ve got both of our heavy hitters whooping this guy. and i don’t think that trump’s rebuttals are as sharp. listen, you’re watching the collapse of one of the great american talents in donald trump. donald trump used to have such a fine sense of where the working class was. now he’s out there bragging on the fact that oil companies are making money while everybody else is suffering. so you see obama has not lost his fastball. trump’s losing his.” Panelist: “who’s winning the cheesecake factory debate? first of all, liberace’s bathroom. bill clinton turned the oval office into hugh hefner’s bedroom, and he’s out here criticizing donald trump. come on. that’s number one. number two, has anybody seen barack obama’s presidential library? and he’s got design critiques for donald trump. number three, this was a totally unserious speech by someone who can’t get over one thing, that his presidency will be remembered for health care and then ushering in the trump years. that’s all barack obama gave the country. he’s been lashing out emotionally ever since. and the same tired jokes, and it’s not going to work. i think donald trump’s presidency is going to be remembered for a slice of the cheesecake factory’s prime cheesecake. now i think probably half the size it was, and it’s $13 a slice. because everyone’s on ozempic, right? that’s what he’s going to be remembered for.” Panelist: “no, darling, i think it’s because prices are high everywhere because of inflation. cheesecake is getting smaller. it could be ozempic, but i think it’s getting smaller because cheesecake factory can’t afford to give us a decent size.” Host: “david, you know the numbers. who’s winning this fight, if anyone?” David: “well, you wouldn’t guess it today, but there are an awful lot of obama-trump voters out there in each of these states. iowa, ohio, michigan, about 10 percent of the electorate voted for obama and then switched to trump in 2016. and those are the voters who are up for grabs. it turns out it wasn’t like they made some covenant with trump to support republicans forever, and it’s not just the rhetoric, it’s the reality. they signed up for trump in 2024, not because they loved him personally, but because they believed he was going to usher in an economic golden age. he was going to extract america from foreign conflict, and that he wasn’t going to make major changes to entitlement programs, including medicaid. and so that’s why his approval rating among independents and our tracker is at 27 percent. and when he’s at 35 percent approval in michigan, is that a great place for a republican candidate to invite him to appear on stage? i don’t think so.” Host: “that’s obama. trump’s response, okay, he said today, and i don’t know if i’m on camera, but this is what he said. it’s not about money, it’s about seeing. guys like obama don’t see it. you don’t see dirt. he doesn’t see filth. he doesn’t see broken ornaments on a building. for you to say it’s a cheesecake factory, that just shows why you were a lousy president back then.” Panelist: “i have a different view than the president on this. i mean, i love any time liberal elites look down on middle class america, right, deplorables, with clinton clinging to your guns and religion. for a lot of americans, like cheesecake factory is not tacky or low class. it’s actually a nice night out. you wonder why trump has made gains with middle class americans. it’s comments like that.” Bill: “well, hold on a second. first of all, he’s losing all those gains because he’s also up there saying that i don’t care about your gas prices and we’re making a fortune while you’re suffering. and also, i love cheesecake factory. i love waffle house, but cheesecake factory is gaudy. it is gaudy and everybody knows that. and so i think the reason that it sticks is because it shows that obama does have a feel for everyday people. i think right wingers want to pretend like, oh, this is approval of elitism. it’s proof that donald trump is just tacky as hell and everybody knows it. and it’s all too expensive for most people. and i think that’s what they’re really feeling. and here’s the question for democrats. it’s not whether they spent money early enough, but where’s that guy been? i mean, if they’re pulling people off the bench, i would have pulled barack obama off the bench months ago because he’s the most gifted communicator of our lifetime, right? and if it’s a one-on-one between barack obama and donald trump, barack obama is going to win every time. he’s more captivating, he’s funnier, and he’s more popular.” Host: “so do you know who i brought in today to go to the cheesecake factory? i don’t think it’s the sort of person you’re talking about, bill. scott bessent. it’s a billionaire named scott bessent who may not frequent the cheesecake factory. i don’t know, perhaps he does, but he went today. and he said he went today.” Scott Bessent: “i have what i always had, the french-dipped cheeseburger. i had a great meal, always had a great meal, and i would tell the martha’s vineyard set to give it a try.” Host: “lean in. okay, okay, is that going to apply? lean in. why scott bessent talking to the martha’s vineyard crowd?” Panelist: “bill’s loving the theater, but that’s for an audience of one.” Panelist: “exactly right. i mean, scott bessent is the worst messenger for that particular message you could possibly make. but this is where we get distracted by stuff that doesn’t really matter. what pisses people off is the intersection of corruption and costs, and a president who says that affordability is now a hoax, who says that he doesn’t give a damn about this stuff. now democrats have their own baggage, but the key number to keep in mind is 22 percent approval rating from donald trump among independents. that gives you a sense of the gravity of what’s going on.” Host: “bill, what’s going on with trump?” Bill: “okay, that’s an existential question.” Host: “but he goes on a stage this weekend and he says about gas prices, but i said i don’t give a damn. i’m going to say it. we’re making a freaking fortune. our country’s getting stronger and those pump prices are going to come down. i don’t give a damn. i mean, obviously, that’s not in the prompter. i mean, nobody would say that’s a good idea. go tell people you don’t give a damn. and we’re making a freaking fortune, not americans. what’s going on, bill?” Bill: “i could tell you things that you don’t care about, like waiving of the jones act or reducing some of the regulations that allow cheaper diesel and importing foreign diesel. two things. one, it hasn’t worked. prices are not lower. and two, most americans don’t think republicans care enough about these things. data shows that americans care about affordability and the economy. americans think that republicans care about iran and immigration.” Host: “but how does he go out, bill, and say i said i don’t give a damn? because when people are going to pay a little higher for gas.” Panelist: “because he doesn’t. he really doesn’t give a damn. i mean, i think that he said that out front. i mean, he said i don’t care and nothing can stop me. and that’s the challenge for the democrats. can they actually challenge him? can they actually stop him?” Panelist: “i think the bigger issue here is that they don’t want people who fake like they’re going to a cheesecake factory. mike lawler was out there pretending to work at mcdonald’s. they want people to understand that they can’t afford mcdonald’s. that’s the issue right now. and all the politicians feel fake and out of touch. that’s why there’s kind of an eat-the-rich mentality that’s focused on the corruption, that started in hungary, might hit israel this week, and is coming to the u.s., i think, in the next week especially.” Host: “paul, one thing i think is very interesting, though, in all seriousness. this is a collapse of an incredible political talent. donald trump used to scare the crap out of democrats because he had that feel for the working class. he was somehow able to really be their tribune. it is a long way from that guy to this guy saying we’re making a freaking fortune and we don’t give a damn about price. this is a complete face plant, a total collapse of a rare political talent. and this party is going to pay for it.” Paul: “i think he’s become extremely undisciplined. and it’s this spray-and-pray kind of strategy where he’s throwing everything. and he’s neglecting to realize that iran sits over all of it. and the country knows that he started the war in iran. he’s continuing the war in iran. that’s eroded his base. maga is very frustrated that he went against his no-forever-war promise. and it’s killing him with independents because people know that if you stop the iran war, gas prices go down. so there’s one guy who can impact gas prices and it’s the president with his war in iran.” Panelist: “yeah, i just want to make one other point for why democrats are doing well right now. it’s not just the implosion of donald trump into sort of self-obsession and self-parody. it’s that they’re putting forward candidates who have brought a lot of populist energy to common sense center-left policies, right? you look at rob sand in iowa. you look at what talarico has done, benefiting from the nomination of paxton. you look at hamilton in kansas, who was the pastor of the largest church in the state. these are candidates that democrats haven’t traditionally put forward. they don’t resemble anything like the dsa, who do nothing to help you gain a majority. but they’re expanding the map because they’re a different kind of candidate and they’re winning over the center. and that’s the power and that’s what’s driving the momentum of this election.” Panelist: “they’re better, but the question is, are they good enough to overcome the unpopularity of their own democratic brand? that is the question.” Host: “that’s the question. back to the point you were making about the money coming in late.” Panelist: “yeah, and look, the smart ones are running against their, like sand, they’re running against both parties.”

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